Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:24/06/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  1. In May 2023, I employed Ideal Fence to construct fences for my backyard. I communicated with Ideal Fence during the sales representative's several on-site visits, stating the north-side fence is to be shared, and the south-side fence is not to be shared (paid for in full by myself). Both costs were indicated in my estimate and then in the contract. My north-side neighbors were fully involved in the entire process. My south-side neighbor was never involved. 2. On May 13th, 2024, I was told the foundation of my south-side fence was in neighbor’s property. I reached out to Ideal Fence to check this. Ideal Fence did not respond, and I had to send more than 10 emails, and 3 follow-up calls to have them send an inspector. 3. In June 6th and 14th's emails sent by the inspector, he informed me that the south-side fence was built on the shared line, and explained that “We will only set the line of the fence to more inside our customers property if it is requested prior to installation”. I was extremely shocked to hear the fence had been constructed in the shared property line since I was clear in all my communication and my south-side neighbor has never been involved in this fence construction communication. And, during the construction, I was never given the opportunity to verify the property line. Ideal fence conducted their own inspections before and after building the fence, I was not given any results or communication from these inspections. The construction process from ideal fence lacked clarity and transparency with the customer, and they claimed that it’s customer’s responsibility to ensure the accuracy of the property line. If the fence boundary is the responsibility of the customer, then I should have been given time and resource to conduct my inspection, or received results from their inspection before and after building the fence. As a BBB accredited business, they should be responsible, prompt, and transparent, with their customers to resolve any issues.
  

  Business Response

  Date: 25/06/2024

  Good morning,

  ******** called in multiple times and we provided our recommendation to seek our a CERTIFIED SURVEYOR because at this point, it is not Ideal Fence's responsibility as we have installed her fence in the normal standard as we always do. Even though customers pay for their fence on their own, they also do not want to loose any space in their  yards by installing within their property lines, so they install the fence on the fence line. There is no mention whatsoever to do so, and they also met with the installers when they were on site and did not mention this fact as well. We have spoken to Ms. ** on at least 6 telephone conversations and have repeated ourselves. As per the attached document signed by the customer "The fence line must be clearly marked by the customer, accurate placement is the4 sole responsibility of the customer. Customers must supply Ideal Fence with a property site place or survey map. Int the event the line is not clearly marked, Clôture Ideal Fence will make every effort to ensure the fence is installed as required, relying on provided sit plan/survey, if necessary. This being said, Clôture Ideal Fence accepts no responsibility whatsoever for inaccuracies related to property boundaries after installation." Ideal Fence, is not responsible for the fence location on the property. The fence was installed on the PROPERTY LINE as per standard practice, per survey provided to us upon installation. This is the norm on fence installations, and I cannot see where we were not clear or transparent, they had more than enough time to evaluate where their fence would be situated on their property. 
  
  The neighbours claim is not that the fence is on his side, it is the base of the concrete footing. In digging our holes for posting, we dig in the shape of a bell to prevent the concrete from heaving from the seasonal thaw in the long run. 
  
  Even after informing the customer that she had signed the form waiving our responsibility for the fence location, she has chosen to file a BBB Complaint instead of resolving the situation with a professional surveyor. 
  
  Thank you

  Customer Answer

  Date: 30/06/2024

  
  Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I’m not satisfied with the ideal fence’s response.
  The ideal fence’s claim in their response "The fence line must be clearly marked by the customer,
  accurate placement is the4 sole responsibility of the customer. Customers must supply Ideal
  Fence with a property site place or survey map. Int the event the line is not clearly marked, Clôture
  Ideal Fence will make every effort to ensure the fence is installed as required, relying on provided sit
  plan/survey, if necessary. This being said, Clôture Ideal Fence accepts no responsibility whatsoever
  for inaccuracies related to property boundaries after installation." DOES NOT apply to my case.
  
  Ideal Fence did receive our land survey, and using it, built the fence such that the farthest edge of
  the fence is on the shared property line, showing that they are fully aware of the exact property line,
  which we provided correctly. The main issue we have with the construction is, knowing that the
  fence foundation is much larger than the thickness of the fence, Ideal Fence is aware of the
  fact that this puts a portion of our fencing foundation into my neighbor’s property.
  
  This is not an issue of miscommunication or inaccurate property line. We have provided all the
  information clearly. This is clearly proved by the fact that the actual above-ground portion of the
  fence ends precisely at the property line, this shows Ideal Fence knows exactly where our property
  ends and knew we wanted our fence to stay within our property. Therefore, everyone can agree that
  both our property line information and our intention were communicated to Ideal Fence.
  
  The error comes from the fact that Ideal Fence dug the foundation area for concrete pouring,
  so they know the size of the foundation block, and given the fence boards ended precisely at
  the property line, they know that the large foundation blocks would exceed my property line
  into my neighbor’s property. We would like to ask, since Ideal Fence knew of our property line and
  our intention to stay within our property, why was the size of the foundation not accounted for?
  Due to the fact that the foundation goes into my neighbor’s property, it has damaged my
  relationship with the neighbor, and endless questions about liability, ownership of the fence, future
  maintenance costs, and our neighbor’s right to modify what should have been my private fence.
  And with this BBB complaint, we would like to resolve this issue, and also understand, what caused
  this issue? Is it an oversight with not accounting for the foundation this time, or is the foundation
  never accounted for by Ideal Fence?
  
  
  The resolution can be either ideal fence rebuilds this portion of the fence and makes sure
  everything is within my property line or refund me this portion of the cost because there exists the
  risk that I will need to rebuild this portion.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************

• Initial Complaint

  Date:30/09/2022

  Type:Sales and Advertising Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  My PVC fence was built by Ideal Dence in June 2020 and Ideal also built a few fences for my neighbors around the same time. In the contract I signed with Ideal, it clearly indicates that "Ideal Fence will guarantee the workmanship for a 5 year period from the date of completion". In May 2022, the storm in Ottawa caused two of my fence posts leaning due to the poor quality of the installation. While, most of the other fence posts for my neighbors look no problem. I have contacted Ideal multiple times and Ideal refused to honor the warranty. In one of the emails Ideal quoted "“PVC (Vinyl) fence that is properly installed can withstand about 65-90 mph. Ottawa wind reported on that day (May 23) was 120 kph = 74.56 mph.” Clearly, the wind speed for the May storm was within the range that fences can withstand if they are properly installed. The owner of Ideal also promised me to send an inspector to find out exactly what caused the fence posts leaning, but the inspector never came. Currently, Ideal has not returned my phone messages and emails to resolve the issue since September.

  Business Response

  Date: 09/11/2022

  Good afternoon,
  
  I have a attached a portion of the correspondence with this gentleman…Please note that he mentions having spoken with the owner in regards to the post in his e-mail which is incorrect. The owner did not speak to anyone at all…
  
  Also, the sales rep had our owner on the telephone and contrary to what the customer says in his e-mail, he started yelling at the rep because he did not want to pay to fix the post. Also, when my rep returned because he had forgotten his measuring tape, the customer actually threatened him with calling the police for trespassing…my rep never got his tape back…
  
  Please note that this situation is not covered under the warranty. The customer cannot comprehend why only 1-2 posts would be damaged in a gust of wind, it is the same situation as a roof, which only a few shingle fly away in the wind and not the entire roof, uprooted trees while the one not more than 2 feet away is still in the ground, untouched…
  
  We are willing to reinstall the materials that were detached from the posts at no cost because the rail was not secured properly. The post is not covered under warranty as the Galvanized steel post which is inserted into the ground in cement has bent at ground level under the pressure of the high winds received at the beginning of the summer. This is not an installation issue, this was caused by mother nature. The customer is not willing to pay for the replacement. 
  
  The customer insists that this is an installation issue, had this been the case, the concrete would have loosened in the ground, and this is not the case.
  
  In his case, we are willing to:
  - reassemble the panel with the existing material as mentioned above at no extra cost
  - for the post: 
  o option 1: we are willing to try and pry (straighten the post) to get it as straight as possible for a $350 fee plus tax. 
  o option 2: we are willing to replace the post insert at a fee of $650 plus tax.
  
  I hope this explains the situation. If you need more information, do not hesitate to contact me.
  
  Thank you
  
   
  

  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 11/11/2022

  
  Complaint: 18150694
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I’m very disappointed with the Ideal’s response. The response is without merit and includes false statements. No wonder it took one whole month plus 9 days to response my complaint.
  

  
  The following issues I would like to clarify and need ***’s further assistance to resolve the complaint:
  
  A: I had spoken to the owner on August 30:
  
  Contrary to the Ideal’s response (“The owner did not speak to anyone at all”), I spoke to the owner of Ideal on the phone on August 30, 2022. It was confirmed in the email sent by Mr. ********: “At this point, you have spoken with the Owner. this cannot go any higher than him”.
  
  B: The behaviour of the sale rep was not acceptable:
  
  Contrary to the Ideal’s response (“he started yelling at the rep … my rep never got his tape back”), the behaviour of the rep was totally unacceptable and that’s why I called the owner to complain against the rep. The rep was really upset as we had disagreement on the issue during his visit, but he came back later and threatened that he would call the police if I do not return his tape. The rep actually took the tape with him when he left and used this as an excuse to revenge.
  
  C: Inspector never came despite promise from the owner:
  
  The owner promised over the phone and confirmed that in the email stating “During your conversation with ****, he confirmed that we would send out a Quality Control Inspector to review the situation”. However, it’s an empty promise and the inspector never showed up.
  
  Without a visit from the inspector to confirm the cause of the problem, Ideal incorrectly stated in the response “The post is not covered under warranty as the galvanized steel post … has bent at ground level …, This is not an installation issue, … the concrete would have loosened in the ground, and this is not the case”. I’m wondering on what basis, Ideal made these conclusions.
  
  Contrary to what Ideal claimed regarding the cause of the problem, I requested an assessment from a professional fence repair company for the two posts, and the owner of the company visited on-site on August 30, 2022 and confirmed that the problem was caused by the quality of the work and the improper installation.
  
  D: The Contract covers 5-year warranty
  
  According to the contract I signed with Ideal on October 25, 2019, section A of “Contract Limit” states “Cloture Ideal Fence will guarantee the workmanship for a 5 year period from the date of completion, subject to payment of work done. Various guarantees are available from the manufacturers of the product we use.”
  
  If it’s not an installation issue as claimed by Ideal, what have caused the two posts bent? It must be the poor quality of the two steel posts installed because the wind speed of the May 2022 storm that caused the problem was within the range that any properly and recently installed and good quality posts could withstand such wind. Please note the fence posts were installed in June 2020 and it’s been only less than 2 years when the problem occurred.
  
  E: The proposed solution is not acceptable
  
  The problem of the two posts is beyond “try and pry” and they must be replaced. It also confused me that, in the entire response, Ideal mentions “the post”, does “the post” refer to one post or the two posts in question?
  
  I have noticed that my neighbour who has 3 young kids has restrained the kids playing in his backyard because of the safety hazard caused by the two posts, and the posts and the panels attached to the posts could fall at any time. As noted earlier, the problem was caused by the installation and the quality of the materials used. The two posts should be replaced by Ideal with no costs to the customer as they are covered by the contract we signed.
  
  I have all the evidence and supporting documents available upon request to assist *** to resolve my complaint.
  

  Sincerely,
  

  ***** *****