Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:26/05/2022

  Type:Product Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  ***** Oleary quoted $2000 Cash to do 235 SQ FT of tile work for 2 bathroom floors and 2 shower walls. A standard brick pattern was chosen and the shower tiles would slide into the tile edge to hide the sides . He stated that a subfloor was unnecessary because it was a new build and the floors were flat. He started tiling on May 4th and completed grouting the both floors on May 5th while receiving $1400 Cash from ****** Kerkvliet. ***** pointed out to ****** one tile at the doorway that was raised. The vanity installers came on the 6th so ***** covered the floor with cardboard to prevent dirt from getting into the grout. Cardboard was left until ***** came back May 11th to tile the shower. He completed and showed ****** one area of tile where the top stuck out from the ones around it. ***** said this was due to the "wall being bowed.". When **** ********* observed the work he noticed multiple tiles in the shower that were not flat/smooth and significant lippage on both shower walls. There was also no space between the top row and second row of tile for grout. The cut tiles along the sides of the shower were not in the tile edge as promised. We were unsatisfied with the work at this point and began to uncover and inspect the tile work on the floors. The floor also had multiple areas with significant lippage. **** called ***** immediately to express his disapproval of the work. On May 12th ***** came to discuss and blamed the floor/walls not being flat, poor quality tiles, and the pattern we had chosen for the lippage in his work. We remained unsatisfied with his work, ***** left after telling us we should remove the tile work we disliked and noted the floors were not repairable. ****** followed up with ***** on May 17th when she requested a full refund for the work. He denied the request, refused a halfway refund, and refused a third party mediation. He offered to relay tile after we had removed, bought new product, and resurfaced the quoted work area.

  Business Response

  Date: 03/06/2022

  ****** ********* contacted me after getting a recommendation from a good friend of hers who has recommended me many times in the past with no complaints.
  first i went and looked at the job and was told they already had other estimates and they were told a sub floor was needed but told me that they did not want a subfloor as it would mean floors in both bathrooms would be to high for a smooth transition to hallway floors at no time did i say it did not need a subfloor it was their choice.
  i informed them that nearly all large format tiles have defects including bows and crowns and showed them by standing tile up and getting them to look down long edge of tile to see,they saw what i was explaining.
  i also explained that all tile suppliers and wholesalers recommend not laying large format tiles in a 50/50 split pattern as it will have lots of lippage and should be layed in a straight pattern or a 70/30 split to reduce lippage but not 100% reduction,they chose the 50/50 pattern not me.
  i layed first bathroom floor and showed ****** where lippage was happening and did the same with second bathroom.
  when i had finished tiling both floors and grouted i did not cover all floors with cardboard i put cardboard from tile boxes on floor making a walkway so vanity installers could enter.
  i returned on may 11th and proceeded to tile two wall shower and and again before i had finished asked ****** to come and look at a bad bow in wall and explained that tiles would not fit and lay flat,again it was a 50/50 split pattern which is not recommended and she said not to worry also i asked where glass walls were going to be installed for shower and was informed that they would be right at edge of shower base thus covering any cut edges where tile trim was and would not be visible,i finished tiling shower showed ****** and left to return the next day to grout.that evening i recieved a call from andreas husband who asked about the lippage and the bow in shower wall i said i would be there the next morning to grout and could explain as i had already done with ****** he agreed.
  i arrived the next morning to grout and was met by both customers who were not happy with bow in shower wall and asked me what could be done to correct, i explained it would have to be taken down and new wall put up with no bows and a good flat surface and a 70/30 pattern to reduce lippage,they also asked about lippage problems on floors and again i went through the explanation of pattern choice and bow and crowns on tiles,they told me not to grout and that shower walls would have to be taken out and i said when this is done please contact me and i would come and tile again.
  i was paid for laying the two bathroom floors which was for my labour and the materials i got them which included mortar and grout, i never recieved any payment for tiling the shower or my materials which i used which was mortar and tile trim.
  I did not speak with them again until 17th may when ****** asked for a refund which i refused as all pros and cons were explained at first meeting and it was themselves who decided to not have a subfloor and the pattern choice was theirs also.
  if a customer is unsure of my advice i always tell them the final choice is down to them,all websites and tile companies will advise never to do a 50/50 pattern with large tiles as this causes bad lippage and the badly bowed shower wall was not down to me and this was explaind before i tiled any further up above.
  
  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/06/2022

  (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
  When ***** O'Leary came to our house to look at our job we discussed the other quote we had at that time and we did mention that the other quote included a subfloor. While giving his free advice he mentioned that because this was a new build with the TJI floor joists and 3/4" decking that he did not think a subfloor was necessary. I recall him actually jumping up and down in the washroom he was to tile and saying "yes that is solid, i would say a subfloor is totally unnecessary." at which point we said that works for us so that the difference between the floors would not be so great.
  
  ***** O'Leary never discussed with us that the 50/50 split pattern would guarantee several areas of lippage throughout the floor. This is something that didn't come up in the list of excuses why there was lippage until the BBB complaint was filed. We obviously don't and have not installed tile before, and none of the boxes of tile have installation recommendations in or on them, the picture ***** has attached is something he has found off a random website, not even our tile manufacturers website.
  
  ***** never took me through the whole room to show me all the areas of lippage. He only pointed out one spot on the floor by the doorway. When looking at the floor it appeared good, until we actually walked on the floor and felt several sharp edges throughout the space.
  
  ***** told us that he used between a 1/4 - 1/2 an inch of mortar underneath the tiles when setting them on the floor, however upon removal of the tiles it was apparent that most of the tiles were sitting directly on the decking, with " of mortar supporting them or none in some areas. Some sections even had a screw head sticking above the grout lines, as ***** had failed to prepare the floor for tile, nor asked us at any point to complete additional preparation work.
  
  ***** literally states in his argument that he placed cardboard over the floors, which made a walkway for the installers but also covered up any visibly of the tiles and the work underneath them.
  
  When ***** came to tile the shower, he did not stop at the point midway up the one wall, when he realized that the wall had a significant bow. It appears he did not properly prepare by checking the flatness of the wall before tiling. The tiles were not straight in the very first row of tile he placed. Each row he placed got worse and worse, by the time he was at the fourth row there was a 1/4" lippage on either side of one of the tiles. Instead of stopping his work to ask ****** about it, he continued all the way to the ceiling. In the top row he was unable to get the grout gap he was trying to achieve so he pushed the tiles down onto the row below them leaving no space to grout between these rows of tile. There are marks on the ceiling where he forced tiles into place. When we removed the tiles, there were large areas on the tile backer where there wasn't any mortar used to hold the tiles to the wall, nor did he butter any of the tiles to get a 90% coverage of the tiles.
  
  During our meeting with ***** O'Leary after seeing his poor workmanship we had several questions for him. We asked him why he continued to work on the shower after realizing how bowed the wall was. He did not have an answer. We asked him why the grout lines in the shower were not consistent and why the top row sat on top of the row below it, he said the grout will hide that all once it is in. We asked him why the tiles were not in the tile edger as promised. He said the shower door frame would hide that, even though he had no idea what model of shower doors we were installing.
  
  When discussing the floor, we asked him why on some tiles one corner of the tile had a lippage and the opposite corner was sitting lower, as if the tile was sloping in one direction. He said that was entirely because of the floor not being level underneath. Even though other tiles in that row did not have the same issues. So then we pointed out that the tiles appeared to be sloped the same way for multiple tiles and asked how the floor not being flat would cause that. He said oh well that is because of the tiles being bowed. So we looked down the long side of the tiles to see maybe 1/32" of a bow. We then asked him if some tiles have a 1/32" bow, why is there " of lippage in several areas of the floor. He said well some tiles weren't too bad, some of the other ones were worse. We then asked if some of the tiles were so bad, why use them? There were 4 boxes left over as we had bought extra. ***** had no answer for us, then continued to cycle through excuses of the ones we have previously mentioned. ***** never used the 50/50 pattern we had chosen as an excuse in our conversations when explaining why there was so much lippage. He started using it as an excuse when he responded to our BBB complaint. ***** was also asked if he had used a level when setting the tiles. ***** had no response. ***** was asked if he would be happy with his work in his own house. ***** replied no he would not be.
  
  We are not happy with Peter's work, and we do not trust him to do the work properly nor any advice he would give us at this point. He lied to us the day he tried to explain his poor workmanship, he lied in his response to the BBB complaint. Another example of him lying would be me waiting to reply to him on the 17th. I have a picture to verify that I contacted him on the 13th via text message, ***** said he was out of town and I said we could discuss this when he was back in town early next week.
  
  ***** only offered to redo the tile work on the floors after we told him we were not going to pay him to do it again. ***** made it very clear it was our sole responsibility to remove tile and prepare the areas for the tile work to be completed again, if we were to choose that route. When I asked ***** if he would allow someone who had not completed a satisfactory job the first time back into his house to complete more work he said that he would not.
  
  We would like back the $1400 paid to ***** for his work, and the $608.11 for the wasted tile material. We are not even including the amount of money we will need to repay Casey's to reinstall the vanities we had to rip out, the plumber's who now need to make a special trip to complete their work, the tools and time we had to invest in ripping out the tile and preparing the floor and walls, also the 4 week time delay we have suffered which resulted in delaying our occupancy of the new house. This has been a nightmare and I am so disappointed that someone can call themselves a professional and then not stand up for their workmanship as they guarantee on their business cards.
  

  Business Response

  Date: 13/06/2022

  i stick to what i originally wrote in my first reply .
  but i would just like to add that customer saying i said no subfloor needed never happened it was customers choice and as for me saying its not needed because new build and has tji floor joists,i would not even know what a tji floor joist was let alone using that description.
  also i asked where shower door and walls would be installed and was told right up to edge of tile and trim so there was no need for me to know what model shower was,also once i finished tiling the floors ****** did look at finished work before i put cardboard down in a walkway for vanity installers and paid me for my work,it was quite a few days before i came back to tile shower and nothing was said about any problems with floors and vanity installers had been.
  i did not recieve any payment for tiling of shower nor my materials.
  and the pictures i supplied of 50/50 split was not from a random website it was from olympia tile wholesaler which is one of the biggest in london ontario

  Customer Answer

  Date: 20/06/2022

  (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
  
  We called and spoke with the company ***** ****** ********* which is where we purchased our tile from and they said that they do install the 12x24 tile in a 50/50 brick pattern and that should present no problem .
  
  My husband spent hours ripping the tile out and taking off all the remaining mortar from the floor to get it prepared to be tiled again. My husband who has never tiled before and my father in law who has tiled a few times ended up being the ones to retile both floors . We purchased from amazon - the RTC spin doctor leveling system and used it to complete the retiling of both floors and the shower as shown in the pictures attached. The same 50/50 pattern was used, the same tile was used and it was on the same surfaces except the shower walls had to be replaced. The floors and shower walls are level and flat and ***** is more than welcome to come and look at this work. Also because my husband also spent time to plan where tiles went he was able to have full tiles from end to end unlike how ***** had it tiled with a thin strip at the end in the one bathroom and the tile was properly cut around both toilets and bathtub areas . So if 2 people with minimal to no tiling experience and a floor leveling kit can achieve a flat level floor / wall result it proves that ***** didn't plan, prepare the surfaces adequately or install the tiles using the proper equipment needed for the job and he is a professional who tiles for a living.
  
  I would also like to note when looking at the supporting pictures there is even spacing between tiles.
  
  At this point and time we are asking for a full refund $1400 and the cost to replace the tile $608.11 . I would also like to note at this time we are not even asking for the hours spent repairing his poor craftsmanship, purchasing of materials to redo the work, or the time actually completing the work. We have also been pushed back a month in completing our projects for occupancy, have had to push back 2 outside contractors and are very unhappy.
  
  See Attachment/File: 1- Tile Job - **** Kerkvliet